Help me fight Clack Corp's dumb decision.

[Gary Slusser]

Anyone wanting a softener or filter with a Clack WS1 control valve should hurry.

It will have to be ordered by June 13th or 14th 2010 so it can be shipped by the 15th. After the 15th of June all Clack control valve OEM/distributors are being forced to stop selling to Internet dealers.

If they are successful in this effort to shut down internet sales of their control valves, other control valve manufacturers may do the same with Autotrol and Fleck control valves. Some of those manufactrers' control valves are already not allowed to be sold on the internet.

Clack is doing this to stop calls and emails from their OEM's dealers' customers and to protect local dealers from the loss of sales to Internet dealers. That's after allowing Internet sales since for as long as the valves have been sold; 9-10 years. And this decision is not going to stop calls to Clack from any type of customer nor will it protect local dealers' business.

Here is a copy of an email to all their OEMs:

*********************************
From: Piasecki, John [mailto:Piasecki@clackcorp.com]
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 3:47 PM
Subject: FW: Control Valve Marketing and Internet Up-Date

Dear Customer,

Please see the new April 26th document attached along with the March 26th update also.

We sincerely request that all OEM’s abide and follow through on the requirements and requests that the attached Control Valve Marketing Updates state.

Our commitment is to the Water Treatment Industry and we feel very strongly that we want Systems with our Control Valves sold and serviced through the long time established traditional channels of distribution.

Thank you for your assistance in complying with our requirements and requests.

Clack Corporation
*************************************

Here is a copy of the March 26th 2010 memo;

Clack Mar 26 2010 Memo

ClackMarch26th2010.JPG (66.3 KiB) Viewed 2394 times

Here is a copy of the April26th email attachment

04.26.2010 TIMELINE TO BRING OEMS AND OEMS' CUSTOMERS INTO COMPLIANCE-1

April26th2010 timelineOEMcompliance.JPG (64.76 KiB) Viewed 2326 times

They attempted this in 2005. Here is a copy of the 2005 memo;

Clack 2005 memo

Clackapr29-2005Contract.jpg (141.8 KiB) Viewed 2394 times

The Clack WS whatever name is not copy written, service marked or trade marked. Yet they have told me and other dealers to take it off my web site, as far back as 2005. And some did and I refused. Some made up their own name for it or used the name their OEM supplier made up per Clack's original agreement with them. So after June 15th 2010, the name will not be on any web site, or be able to be found on the internet and all suppliers and their dealers will be calling it a different made up name. How brilliant is that! And all the people that own one now, and know the correct name will be calling Clack for the next 20 years attempting to find parts on the internet.

This decision is not going to help local dealers. Local dealers mistakenly think they are losing business to the internet while they continue to market to everyone in their service area which includes DIYers that are not going to buy from them. And they refuse to sell to DIYers. They also refuse to service equipment they have not sold, or don't sell, and then they propose a new softener etc. instead of fixing good control valves or replacing resin or other media. And in my opinion, many are charging much more than they have to; especially in today's economy.

SO I NEED YOUR HELP. Over the last few weeks I have talked to them and emailed them until it wore me out. I have talked to and emailed many other dealers and OEMs. I would like to continue selling the Clack WS-1 but it does not look like I will be able to find any supplier willing to sell it to me IF they know I will sell it online so...

I would like to ask everyone that does not like this decision to call, fax or email Clack Corp and voice your opinion. You can also post your thoughts here and on any other forums on other web sites.

If no one answers the phone, please leave a message or send an email or fax.

bishop@clackcorp.com

piasecki@clackcorp.com

Clack Corporation
4462 Duraform Lane
Windsor, WI 53598-9716 USA
Phone: 608-846-3010
Fax: 800-755-3010

Here is a copy of an email reversing a decision that there would be no sales of parts to existing customers of internet dealers. The first decision of no support was made on Monday May 3rd 2010 to me by phone and the email below reversed it the next day. Now there will be support to existing customers of internet dealers.

******************************
To People Who Sell Over The Internet,

Going forward and after the June 15th deadline for all Internet Seller?s to be in compliance with the attached March 26th and April 26th attachments, Clack will allow Internet Seller?s to supply replacement parts for Clack Valves to homeowners who has purchased the system from them. The Internet Seller is not to supply replacement parts to anyone other than their customer. Also in this situation the OEM supplying the part(s) to the Internet Seller can drop ship directly to the homeowner so that the homeowner is taken care of promptly.

We want to make sure the end user is taken care of properly with our product. Also with a 10 year history on the Clack Control Valves the number of replacement parts being sold is very minimal. Therefore these occurrences for requests for replacement parts from a homeowner that bought a system over the Internet should be minimal.

If there are any further questions or need for clarification please contact us.

Thank you

Bob Bishop
National Sales Manager
Clack Corporation
*****************************

Being an optimist, I think this dumb decision can still be reversed if Clack hears from enough people.

Thank you for any contact you make with Clack.

[evil0ne]

As a brand new owner (still not installed) I guess I feel lucky I ordered when I did.

[Gary Slusser]

Call Clack and tell them what you think and that you will be telling all your family, extended family, friends, co-workers, neighbors and any stranger that will listen, to not buy a Clack control valve on anything after June 15th. Then email them and keep repeating the call and email like every week until they change this dumb decision.

They say they are 'internet illiterate', and I guess they are when they mistakenly think they are only selling 300-400 valves per month online and my primary supplier alone has sold 275+ a month.

So y'all, show them the power of the internet by calling and emailing frequently.

[SLinMI]

Here's the text of an e-mail I sent to Clack:

Dear Clack Corporation:

I am writing to express my disappointment in what I believe to be a poor decision on the part of Clack Corporation in attempting to restrict sales of Clack valve products via Internet dealers as detailed in a March 26, 2010 memo from the Clack Corporation entitled "Review of Clack Control Valve Marketing and Internet sales".

I am a DIYer. After experiencing years of water problems that could not be resolved by local water "professionals," I spoke with several experts all of whom recommended a new properly-sized system that included a Clack WS valve (many claimed your valve was by far the best on the market). I couldn't find a local supplier who would discuss whether they sold such equipment over the phone or who would sell such products to me for self-installation. So I instead did some research over the Internet and ordered an new system including a Clack WS-1 valve from one of the larger suppliers over the Internet and could not be more satisfied. The installation process was simple and the softener now works great. The customer support was better, more responsive, and more knowledgeable than any of the persons that I dealt with locally in the past. For the first time in years, the family is happy with the quality of the water in our home.

The thought that Clack is now preparing to implement marketing changes that had they been in place would have prevented this positive customer experience from occurring is disheartening and seems short-sighted given consumer trends toward greater use of the Internet.

I understand that Clack Corporation attempted to impose similar restrictions several years ago and reconsidered that effort at the time. I would urge the same reconsideration now. I also am concerned that the decision will make it more difficult to obtain the proper parts should I ever need to service my softener.

My experience with your company's products are extremely positive. Given that you have such a great product, it seems to this consumer that you should attempt to make the product as widely available as possible, and not restrict availability of the product or parts. As a corporate entity your should strive for levels of customer service and marketing practices that equate to your quality product. Instead, this sort of marketing change makes me reluctant to recommend your product to others as it undermines confidence in your corporation.

Should Clack Corporation choose to proceed with these new restrictions, I will be contacting the consumer protection division of my state's Office of Attorney General seeking a review of the action under the state Consumer Protection Act and as unfair restraint on trade under state law.

Again, as a currently satisfied consumer, I urge you to reconsider what I believe to be a misguided corporate decision.

Thank you in advance for your consideration of this customer's concerns.

[evil0ne]

Here's the text of an e-mail I sent to Clack:

Wow, that was a very long but very well said Email.

[fenston]

Here was my email to Clack:

"I went to the message forum today at qualitywaterassociates and noticed that the Clack valve I currently own will no longer be sold on the internet. I dislike this decision seeing as I have a system in place that I bought over the internet years ago and would like to be able to just buy a replacement valve if needed in the future (so far the valve has been rock solid). I have never called Clack for any support and I would not have bought this from a traditional outlet (local dealer) so this decision would just be a loss of a sale to you. Hoping you reconsider this decision."

[Gary Slusser]

Here s another to Clack that I received as a CC. Thanks Bob.

I just learned of the Clack Corp decision to no longer supply Internet distributors with Clack controls. I'd like to offer my experience and suggest that you reconsider this policy change.

Four years ago I purchased softener and acid neutralizer systems from Gary Slusser at Quality Water Associates. Gary's knowledge and support have been excellent. My decision to go with an Internet supplier was made after getting numerous quotes from local dealers. Granted, I'm a reasonable Do-it-Yourself person so going with an Internet supplier was certainly reasonable. But the difference in pricing was greater than 50% and that was a considerable part of my decision. So, quality support and knowledge, coupled with great pricing makes for an easy decision for someone like me.

On the one hand, I can see where certain business economics might make you consider abandoning part of your supplier network but for the life of me, I can't see that this segment of the business is a make or break part of your market. Why would you ignore a segment of the market that expands your base? You must realize that the DIY market is considerable. Look at the growth of the Home Depot's and Lowe's. While they have the big box stores, they also do Internet sales. Would you abandon them if they carried your controllers?

I don't understand why you will no longer support these dealers and I'm writing to encourage you to reconsider this decision. Don't cut these Internet dealers loose, you'll only promote your competitors who continue to supply this portion of the marketplace.

Sincerely,
Bob Scardamalia

[muppin]

Following is a series of emails between me and Clack:

From: Tom [muppin]
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 9:32 AM
To: Bishop, Bob; Piasecki, John
Subject: Internet Sales of Clack Control Valves


I have read about your plan to severely restrict the sale of your products via the internet. I don’t think you have fully considered the ramifications of this decision.

Let me tell you a short story about what my company did (I am now retired). We manufactured a product used by home woodworkers. It was considered by everyone who used it the “Cadillac” product, and we sold thousands each year. It was distributed through our own Manufacturers Rep organization and two national distributors. Our Reps complained that when an end user had a problem they had to solve it as the national distributors did not have the expertise to do so. So when another national distributor, who sold via the internet, came to us asking to carry out product, we said no, thinking this would just add to the angst of our Reps.

As it turned out, this distributor was already importing products from Asian suppliers.
When we refused his offer, he turned to these suppliers to get a similar product. Our response was an advertising campaign extolling the benefits of our design. It did not take long for the Asian manufacturers to figure out how to make our design and even add more features, all for a lower cost. With a year or two, our national distributors were also sourcing from Asia. Today, our annual production of this product is in the low hundreds.

What your plan is going to do is shut off the capability of Quality Water Associates (QWA) to supply your controller with their softeners. Do you expect them to quietly go away? There are very clever engineers and manufactures in Asia who would be very happy to reverse engineer your controller for sale in the U.S.

I am a dedicated DIYer. I obtained my softener with a WS-1 controller from QWA about four years ago. When I decided to replace my old Culligan unit one of my options was getting a GE unit from Home Depot. I went to the internet and searched and found many complaints about GE softeners. But I also found many, many more that were extolling the WS-1 softeners provided by QWA. I bought one and have never had a problem.

Gary Slusser may be blunt in demeanor, but his instructions and guidance are excellent. When I need a new softener or have a request for a recommendation by a friend/relative, it will be to buy one from QWA. Hopefully you will reconsider your decision so that it will contain a Clack controller.

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Piasecki, John [mailto:Piasecki@clackcorp.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 11:21 AM
To: Tom; Bishop, Bob
Subject: RE: Internet Sales of Clack Control Valves

Tom,

Thank your for your comments.

We have put lots of thought and consideration into our decision. We agree the internet is a very valuable and powerful educational and marketing tool and we encourage our customers to use it for those reasons.

Water treatment products have to be designed specifically for the water in ones home. We frequently are being called by the homeowner internet buyers to ask how to set up the system, which we didn’t build or design. They also say the system is not working properly and what can we do for them to get it right or take the equipment back because they assume we built the system.

We are a family company and have been in business for 65 years. It is a great and very successful company and our focus is on providing quality products and making sure that our products are handled, installed, and applied correctly. We also do not sell complete systems. We only sell components to other Water Treatment business and they assemble and handle all aspects or the product from there. We manufacture the Control Valve and all our customers have signed a marketing and distribution agreement that requires them to handle, apply and install the systems with our Control Valve correctly and to also make sure there channels of distribution do this also. This has been in place since the inception of our valve which is now approximately 10 years.

We are proceeding forward with our business decision to reinforce what was originally set up in our marketing and distribution agreement approximately 10 years ago with our direct Water Treatment Manufacturers.

Regards,

John Piasecki

Western Regional Manager
________________________________
From: Tom [muppin]
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 11:32 AM
To: 'Piasecki, John'
Subject: RE: Internet Sales of Clack Control Valves

Mr. Piasecki,

I think you missed the point of my email. If you forgo internet sales you will deprive a large customer base of products. They will go elsewhere. You will lose sales and possibly control of your market.

My company is also an old, family owned business. Ideas in this type of company sometimes become rather rigid. Fortunately the product I described was only a third of the company sales volume. The company survived but it would have been much easier if we had worked with the internet rather than against it. Good luck.

Tom

[Gary Slusser]

Here is a reply to a customer of mine that contacted Clack concerning replacement parts in the future.

****************
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bishop, Bob <Bishop@clackcorp.com>
Date: Fri, May 21, 2010 at 9:15 AM
Subject: RE: Clack valves on the internet
To: Michael @gmail.com>
Cc: "Piasecki, John" <Piasecki@clackcorp.com>

Mike,

If your Internet provider goes out of business, which I think is not
likely because we are 1 of several valve manufacturers and there are
other choices, you can contact Clack (608-846-3010) and explain your
dilemma and we will assist you in getting the necessary part. If you
want to contact me directly (ext 130) that is fine also and I will
help you out.

Bob Bishop
*******************

My problem with this is that Clack says a primary reason for shutting down internet sales is the number of contacts they receive from internet customers. Initially they were going to prevent internet dealers from selling parts to our existing customers. Then a day later they backed off that decision by saying they will allow drop shipping of parts by the original internet dealer to their customers only.

Now they say they will also get parts to existing internet dealer customers if the dealer goes out of business if the customer will contact Clack. I believe they will do the same if the dealer simply refuses to sell parts for whatever reason at some future date.

I don't see why they wouldn't do the same for customers of local dealers also.

To me this proves they don't think about the ramifications of their decisions before they make decisions. They allowed internet sales for 10 years...

If I were a local dealer selling their valves, this would cause me to seriously wonder about future decisions they may make.

[rshosted]

Here is my letter. One thing I forgot to note is the local dealer I did speak with did not have HALF the information I wanted or needed. He couldn't explain resin, installation, or how the product would be better or give me objective comparisons. Not to mention he was charging me around $4,500 for a different system, plus $300 to install the system. I wish I would have purchased something other than Clack after reading this thread....

>>>
I recently spent time researching water softener systems and purchased one. I shopped around via the internet and finally decided on a clack system. I have recently learned that you will not provide support to Internet dealers due to a service issue. To me, this appears to be a very poor choice. I realize that because I am a DIY'er I would not have a 'dealer' holding my hand while installing this system, and was okay with that. But the Internet dealer I bought from provided me with a high level of service and got me through any small questions I had. I was completely satisfied with the product.

Many people come to me for advice for easy to use, quality systems for their homes. I can tell you how many people I have sold water RO systems to through my internet dealer because of the good service I got and reliability of service, and they have all been happy. Because I have had such good service with my Clack WS-1 so far, I had planned to recommend the system to all my friends who are also DIY'ers, knowing that some of the less handy people would end up buy through local dealers. Now that I know you are stopping Internet sales, which will affect service and information on repairs for me and my DIY'er friends I will not support your product either and steer people to another product, unless I learn you change this poor business decision. If you do, I would be more than happy to support you in return. In this economy I am amazed at your decision to cut out ANY customers and hope that it does work out for you so that if I ever do have a problem with my Clack product I don't end up having to replace with a different brand.

Please notify me if you do change your mind so that I can refer your company more customers, otherwise I will refer them to a competitor who supports their product better.

[willow]

I sent an email to Clack praising their decision to try to cleanup a bad situation with online Water Softener 'Dealers'. It is just too easy to buy equipment from 'Dealers' who provide no analysis of your needs and little support after the purchase.

[Gary Slusser]

I sent an email to Clack praising their decision to try to cleanup a bad situation with online Water Softener 'Dealers'. It is just too easy to buy equipment from 'Dealers' who provide no analysis of your needs and little support after the purchase.

You've got to be kidding! TOO EASY TO BUY FROM!!!

Did you contact the dealer you bought from before buying? Did you compare what they told you to what I or another dealer may have told you?

Let's see.... you posted here in Feb wanting help with your control valve not counting down the gallons and programming info. You previously had read my posts somewhere other than here suggesting a Clack WS-1 control valve on a softener you wanted to buy or you probably wouldn't have bought a Clack WS-1.

And I know that anyone that searches for a Clack WS1 or -1 has my web site come up number 1-5 (first page) in all search engines, yet you didn't contact me or buy from me and in that Feb post you say you didn't find my site until after buying from a competitor and wanted to check your programming.

I didn't help you with programming due to you not providing any info needed to program it but I did mention you solving the no metering problem and I haven't heard from you since until now.

Now it sounds as if your email to Clack is a revenge thing because you are including me in the bad internet dealers you expect Clack to cleanup. Am I right about revenge?

You sound like you are mistakenly thinking local dealers are any better although harder to buy from, and yet they outnumber internet dealers hundreds or more to one.

Here's the link to your only other post here;
viewtopic.php?t=1439

[Gary Slusser]

Well as of about 3 PM yesterday (6/15/2010) when I sent in an order for a softener with a Clack WS1 CS version control valve so it could be entered into my supplier's computer system before their 5 PM ET closing, I've been out of business.

From Jun 1 2010 I have sold 25 softeners/filters with that control valve. So I am going to suffer a drastic loss of income.

That is due to supposedly amend their OEM/Distributor contract so as to stop all internet dealers from selling their valves instead of weeding out 'bad' dealers by enforcing their original contract with their distributors to do so.

I have been told by one person with Clack and my suppliers of the Clack valves, that I am highly qualified to sell their valves per their contract with Clack but.... this new Clack requirement of the dealer having to be on site to deliver and install etc. is preventing them from continuing to sell me softeners/filters using the Clack valves.

That also is supposed to be enforced on local dealers by the OEM/Distributor. Which means that local dealers are not supposed to be allowed to sell to DIYers; either online or locally.

I just looked up my sales of other brands of control valves and I found that as far as I recall, I have not sold any this year, 1 last year, 2 the year before and 0 the year before that and a few back to 9/30/05 when I sold me last Fleck 7000, and then in 2006 back through 2004 the majority were twin tank type controls that Clack still doesn't make (they came out with two softeners using a alternating motor control that increases the cost and was not competitive price wise compared to Fleck twin tank controlled softeners. So from Jan 20 something 2004 I have sold Clack controls 99.9% or damned near exclusively. That's roughly 6.5 years as of now June 16 2010.

I do not know what I will do now, as far as I am concerned I'm out of business. I have a problem selling control valves that are harder for a DIYer to service and have fewer features than a Clack WS1 CS version. And since I have been the major, if not the only, online marketer of the Clack WS1 control valve for 6.5 years now, I have no marketing of other brands of valves so I would have to convert anyone wanting a Clack valve to another brand. Right now I don't feel comfy doing that.

[Booner]

It seems that from conversations with people close to the source that you and you alone are the cause for the decision to ban internet sales. Seems that over the years you have violated company policies regarding sales and distribution and that quite a large number of your customers have been the ones contacting Clack for either clarification, warranty or service issues related to a number of issues but topping the list would be improper sizing and programming instructions. So you pretty much have no one to blame but yourself. Sooner or later the attitude had to catch up with you. We note that in the past year your presence on the DIY sites has greatly diminished because most of them have banned you from posting and the few that you survive on edit your posts with alarming frequency. It is salesmen like you that make internet sales a perilous place to purchase products from. No doubt tha tover the years you have managed to make a few buyers happy but then even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in awhile.

[Gary Slusser]

Really?

And what source might that be (I don't expect an answer because liars don't produce sources).

Now just in the last week I've seen this claim on a forum or two that I post in and if it was true that they shut down internet sales because of me dumbass, and it isn't, then I'd be thinking that Clack's decision was even dumber than it is because they should have forced my supplier to shut me down instead of forcing all their distributors to shut down all internet dealers.

You sound like some dumb plumbers I know. They can't think logically, they stick their nose in other people's business, they lie and worry about me to the point of being obsessed with what I do and how I do it and where I do it. And here you are, another anonymous coward pretending to be someone else failing to realize how irrational, illogical and stupid you sound. While I'm smiling and laughing at you.

[capman]

I emailed Clack about the withdrawl of internet sales and was somewhat dissapointed with the reply. I will say that John Piasecki returned a very cordial response, which realisticly, he did not have to.

Sent to Clack Customer Support:
I am trying to replace my existing home water softener. It is a
Whirlpool model and I am looking to upgrade to a more reliable system. I
have read the experts opinions and decided that I would purchase a unit
with a Clack control valve. Every site I go to states that you have
stopped all internet sales to support the local shops. Since that will
do nothing for me but drive the price up, I will be forced to go with
Fleck or GE. I have heard that they also make very good control valves,
but would prefer to purchase what reviewers call the best. If you have
another solution, I would very much appreciate a reply.
Thank you,
Steve Parrott

Reply sent from John:
Thank you for your inquiry. If your plans are to purchase your water
softener over the internet and do your own installation Fleck or GE
would be your best choice. My suggestion would be the Fleck.

Due to the support and follow up problems experienced with the internet
sellers we have chosen not to have our control valve sold through that
channel of distribution.

Thank you,

John Piasecki
Western Regional Manager

I will again give a big "thank you" to john for the reply. And, I will probably go with a Fleck control valve as he suggested. I just cannot justify paying more to get a system locally, and be forced to abide by thier limited offererings and restrictions in order for them to maintain their profit margin. I have been using softeners for more than 20 years. I would hope that I could make a decision on my own, and maintain the system myself.

[Gary Slusser]

The last I spoke to John was in early June.

He said that in addition to protecting local dealers (which is not possible and not needed based on the number of Clack valves sold online) and Clack receiving complaints from internet dealers' customers (which he told me I had none of), he said there was another reason that he could not tell me about.

I have no idea what it is.

Thanks for posting that.

[Booner]

The reason is YOU dumbass. All the bullshit you have posted all over the web since 1997 under your own name and various aliuses. All the arguments, the back stabbing, the out and out lies, and your assertion that you are somehow the god of water filtration along with your arrogant attitude are the reason. Yes buddy, you and you alone have managed to kiss it up for everybody.

[Gary Slusser]

The reason is YOU dumbass. All the bullshit you have posted all over the web since 1997 under your own name and various aliuses. All the arguments, the back stabbing, the out and out lies, and your assertion that you are somehow the god of water filtration along with your arrogant attitude are the reason. Yes buddy, you and you alone have managed to kiss it up for everybody.

I hear ya anonymous and personally miserable person but... tell me why they didn't just prevent me from selling their valves online and allow the rest that where or got around to wanting to later t o sell them?

And why would you believe they wouldn't tell me and anyone else it was due to me?

If you don't logically answer those questions in support of your dumb claim, I'm fairly sure people will think you're stuck on stupid as I know you are.

IMO about two weeks ago now I may have stumbled on to the third and unannounced reason why Clack has done this and is against just anyone that wanted to, to be allowed to sell their valves online.

No I'm not going to tell you what I found or what it is; other than to say it is big bucks for Clack and detrimental to local dealers and Clack's distributors.

[Booner]

So either way its a win for Clack

They make more money and get rid of you

Maybe you can go back to selling insurance