Rebuild or new valve...

[Brando]

I have a fleck 5600 econominder on a system, for some time i have been having issue with it not providing soft enough water. I have even changed out the resign in the tank.
It worked ok after that for a while, but i find that if i run the system through several consecutive regens..its "better".
I am at a loss, what else could be the issue here?
COULD the valves be bad in the fleck? it seems to work and cycle correctly, but i just don't know what else it could be.
what does a rebuild kit for a 5600 econominder cost?

[Gary Slusser]

How much depends on what all you want to replace on the control valve.

[Brando]

im not sure what should be replaced...valves and seals? is there a "standard" basic rebuild kit?

[Brando]

i see you recommend the clack ws1 for ease of use/service.
My unit is outside on the main before is comes in to the house, would this be a problem?( out side in arizona).
How much does that unit run?

[Gary Slusser]

No standard rebuild kit because there are a number of things that rarely need replacing and usually you figure out what is wrong with the control before buying parts or you're just replacing parts hoping.

A new control valve usually costs half of a new 1-1.5 cuft softener. And if you change brand or model the control valve won't fit the plumbing so it's easier to replace the whole softener and get the right size if the present one is undersized.

[Brando]

alright , i see your point, how do i determine what MAY be wrong?

[Gary Slusser]

Put it in a manual regeneration and watch it and listen to it and see if it sucks brine water out of the salt tank. And read some posts here and check some things out.

[Brando]

OK, i think the problem has been identified, insufficient brine draw, the cause is still yet unknown.
I disconnected the line at the valve that goes to the brine tank, i blew through it and it produced bubbles with issue, i sucked on it and pulled brine( nasty )
I marked the waterline inside the brine tank with a sharpie.
I put the unit into re-gen and watched it cycle.

During the brine rinse the water level (only) dropped just under and inch( i know this is not correct).
i have detached the line inside the brine tank during brine rinse and was getting good suction from the line and from the elbow when attached, no blockage that i could tell. I checked at the valve and it also had good suction.

during the brine fill cycle the water level increased to fill the tank 4 inches above the original mark i had made.

this is the valve from in the tank: is this this prone to fail?


so, i have determined that for some reason, not nearly enough brine is being draw into the tank, yet it is refilling without issue, BUT i am confused with the fact that i was able to suck brine through the line myself.
the only other things i can add are:
When in brine draw, the sound that is being made reminds me of suction with as light leak, kind of a "bubbly ppssspt" and when i adjust the nut where the line attaches inside the brine tank it sometimes goes away, yet more brine does not draw.

also the water level in the tank is not high enough to lift the float in the picture.
over the last couple days ive run it through numerous re-gens while testing, and right now the water is running very soft, but only because of the numerous re-gens i am sure, even at only an inch of brine, 4 or 5 re-gens will do something

any thoughts?

[Gary Slusser]

Mix a cup full of Iron Out on a quart of water. Dunk the bottom of the pick up in the solution to cleanr that rust off and out of it.

Then connect the brine pickup to the control valve outside the salt tank. Put the brine pick up in the quart of solution water and put the control valve into the slow rinse brine draw cycle position and suck the solution into the resin tank. When you've sucked it all out, unplug the control valve and shut off the water and install the pickup in the salt tank and plug the control in, turn on the water and let it finish and see if it is sucking salt water as it should. It does that at a 1/2 gal/minute, so it is not fast but it has to be constant to the bottom of the tank so the air check closes off the water flow.

If that doesn't give you better brine line flow, you may need a new pickup but make sure you don't have a loose brine fitting allowing it to suck air instead of heavy brine water.

[Brando]

where do i buy iron out?

[Gary Slusser]

At grocery, hardware, big box stores and most places that sell softener salt.

[Brando]

iron out instructions followed:
Discoloration on pickup is gone.
when i put the unit into re-gen so the iron out solution would be sucked up, nothing happened, BUT as i fiddled with the pickup i lifted the piece with the float on it, and it broke some sort of suction and it drained the solution rapidly.
if i let it down it created a seal again. odd thing is sometimes it didn't "reseal".

i stopped, unplugged, reinstalled the pick-up started again...no sucking. at this point i disconnected the line from the top of the pick-up and inserted the end into a quart container of brine.
drained it what seemed like the .5 gallon minute rate.
reconnected to pick-up...nothing.
turned the plastic top that holds the pickup and was able to get my fingers in to lift the piece with the float, didn't seem "stuck". still nothing.

It appears there is an issue somewhere between the connection to the pick-up and the end of the pick-up.

Where should the water level be in relation to the float?
because..it has never been high enough to make it "float".
Is there a way to adjust the float lower or should i increase the water level?

does not make sense to me that the float does seem to be being used so to speak.

[Gary Slusser]

You need a new pickup then.

Then your float is a safety float meaning it is to shut off water from going into the tank if the water rises too far; just a like float in a toilet tank.

So take the whole thing to a local dealer and get a new one for like $30; or order one online.

[Brando]

ok, it the "style" so to speak all the same, is there a "better" one than another?

[Gary Slusser]

I would go to a Fleck 2310 valve and a #500 air check.

[Brando]

Well, the fleck is installed, and i have the same result, does not draw brine.
If i disconnect the line at the top of the new float and insert it in to a quart container of water, it pulls the brine.
but when attached to the pickup..nothing, or close to nothing.
Is seems like it doesn't have enough suction to pull through the entire pickup assembly when connected...
i am at a loss as to what is happening.

[Brando]

having spoken with the person i purchased the assembly from:
I pulled and inspected the valve assembly to which the drain line attaches nothing seemed obstructed, including the seal at the drain coupling.

[Brando]

an update:
I let it run an entire cycle form start to finish, it is still in the brine rinse stage, but the water level has dropped about 2.5 inches so far.

[Gary Slusser]

make sure you don't have a loose brine fitting allowing it to suck air instead of heavy brine water.

Other causes of insufficient suction is, a blocked drain line flow control (what he told you to check), a blocked injector, injector throat (under the injector in the same hole) or the injector screen filter. And the loose brine line fittings I mentioned before/above.

Also a screen filter in either end of the brine line or, the brine line flow control button in the fitting where the brine line connects to the control valve.

[Brando]

its at the end of the brine rinse: the water level has dropped about 10 or 12 inches.
i checked the injector while i had the whole thing apart , i gently used a paperclip in the throat, rinsed the screen in iron out.
the screen in the brine line is out at the moment, i forgot to put it back in, i will reinstall when the cycle is finished.
It seems to have resolved.